Hello,
This is Lasso 8.5.6 running on Snow Leopard Server.
I wonder if it is correct to have about 40 httpd processes running at
the same time. It seems they just hang there and do not go away.
Lasso is connecting to FileMaker SA 10 and I have big problemes with
slow response and crashing. So I wonder if this is a bad symptom:

603 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 117,6 MB
1 005,8 MB
604 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
609 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
2,35 GB
612 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 94,1 MB
996,4 MB
613 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
614 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
615 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
616 httpd _www 0,0 7,9 MB
2,35 GB
617 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
618 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
2,35 GB
621 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 88,4 MB
986,4 MB
622 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
623 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
624 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
625 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
626 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
627 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
628 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
629 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
632 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
2,35 GB
633 httpd _www 0,0 7,7 MB
2,35 GB
634 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
2,35 GB
635 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
2,35 GB
636 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
2,35 GB
637 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
638 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
639 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
2,35 GB
640 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
641 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
642 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
643 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
644 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
645 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
2,35 GB
646 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
2,35 GB
647 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
5030 httpd _www 0,0 7,7 MB
2,35 GB
5419 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB
5437 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
15465 httpd _www 0,0 7,3 MB
2,35 GB
15471 httpd _www 0,0 7,3 MB
2,35 GB
15472 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
2,35 GB
15556 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
2,35 GB

Thanks for any help!
/asle benoni

Many httpd processes means that Apache is still processing quite a few
requests. It's consistent with your slow responses, and is either a sign
of a busy site and/or a slow site.

/Göran

On 3/10/10 9:44 AM, Asle Benoni wrote:
> Hello,
> This is Lasso 8.5.6 running on Snow Leopard Server.
> I wonder if it is correct to have about 40 httpd processes running at
> the same time. It seems they just hang there and do not go away.
> Lasso is connecting to FileMaker SA 10 and I have big problemes with
> slow response and crashing. So I wonder if this is a bad symptom:
>
> 603 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 117,6 MB
> 1 005,8 MB
> 604 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 609 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 612 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 94,1 MB
> 996,4 MB
> 613 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 614 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 615 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 616 httpd _www 0,0 7,9 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 617 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 618 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 621 Lasso8Service lasso 0,0 88,4 MB
> 986,4 MB
> 622 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 623 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 624 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 625 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 626 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 627 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 628 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 629 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 632 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 633 httpd _www 0,0 7,7 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 634 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 635 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 636 httpd _www 0,0 8,0 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 637 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 638 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 639 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 640 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 641 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 642 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 643 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 644 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 645 httpd _www 0,0 7,8 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 646 httpd _www 0,0 7,4 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 647 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 5030 httpd _www 0,0 7,7 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 5419 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 5437 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 15465 httpd _www 0,0 7,3 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 15471 httpd _www 0,0 7,3 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 15472 httpd _www 0,0 7,5 MB
> 2,35 GB
> 15556 httpd _www 0,0 7,6 MB
> 2,35 GB
>
> Thanks for any help!
> /asle benoni
>
> --
>
>
>
>


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On 10/03/2010, at 10:22 PM, Göran Törnquist wrote:

> Many httpd processes means that Apache is still processing quite a few requests. It's consistent with your slow responses, and is either a sign of a busy site and/or a slow site.

Not necessarily.

In Server Admin (the OS X Server app) > Web > Settings > General

Check the values for Maximum Spare Servers. This is the number of httpd processes that will be kept running even when not actively serving a request. I'm guessing that it's going to be in the 30-40 range, and if so then what you posted is pretty normal. The key thing is to make certain you don't have too many spare servers if you are tight on RAM.

- Wade

On 3/10/10 10:38 AM, Wade Maxfield wrote:
> On 10/03/2010, at 10:22 PM, Gran Trnquist wrote:
>
>
>> Many httpd processes means that Apache is still processing quite a few requests. It's consistent with your slow responses, and is either a sign of a busy site and/or a slow site.
>>
> Not necessarily.
>
> In Server Admin (the OS X Server app)> Web> Settings> General
>
> Check the values for Maximum Spare Servers. This is the number of httpd processes that will be kept running even when not actively serving a request. I'm guessing that it's going to be in the 30-40 range, and if so then what you posted is pretty normal. The key thing is to make certain you don't have too many spare servers if you are tight on RAM.
>
> - Wade
>
You're so right, and I was too lazy in my answer. :-)

/Gran

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Ok, so this Snow Leopard Server has 12GB RAM so it is not tight on
RAM. Am I right then that this is normal?
If it is not and as you point out Göran that this points to a slow
server, how can I fix it?

I am only serving FileMaker10 SA connections.

/asle

2010/3/10 Göran Törnquist <goran@[Protected]>:
> On 3/10/10 10:38 AM, Wade Maxfield wrote:
>>
>> On 10/03/2010, at 10:22 PM, Göran Törnquist wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Many httpd processes means that Apache is still processing quite a few
>>> requests. It's consistent with your slow responses, and is either a sign of
>>> a busy site and/or a slow site.
>>>
>>
>> Not necessarily.
>>
>> In Server Admin (the OS X Server app)>  Web>  Settings>  General
>>
>> Check the values for Maximum Spare Servers.  This is the number of httpd
>> processes that will be kept running even when not actively serving a
>> request.  I'm guessing that it's going to be in the 30-40 range, and if so
>> then what you posted is pretty normal.  The key thing is to make certain you
>> don't have too many spare servers if you are tight on RAM.
>>
>>  - Wade
>>
>
> You're so right, and I was too lazy in my answer. :-)
>
> /Göran
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.

On 11/03/10 10:29 AM, Asle Benoni wrote:
> Ok, so this Snow Leopard Server has 12GB RAM so it is not tight on
> RAM. Am I right then that this is normal?
> If it is not and as you point out Gran that this points to a slow
> server, how can I fix it?
>
> I am only serving FileMaker10 SA connections.
>

What does your machine have for the Min Spare Servers value? If it's in
the range of 30-40 then yes, that list of processes is what we'd expect
to see.

If it's really low like 8, then something is keeping 30+ processes going
and would require investigating.

- Wade

Minimum spare servers: 16
Maximum spare servers: 64

Is that ok?

/asle


2010/3/11 Wade Maxfield <lassolist@[Protected]>:
> On 11/03/10 10:29 AM, Asle Benoni wrote:
>>
>> Ok, so this Snow Leopard Server has 12GB RAM so it is not tight on
>> RAM. Am I right then that this is normal?
>> If it is not and as you point out Gran that this points to a slow
>> server, how can I fix it?
>>
>> I am only serving FileMaker10 SA connections.
>>
>
> What does your machine have for the Min Spare Servers value?  If it's in the
> range of 30-40 then yes, that list of processes is what we'd expect to see.
>
> If it's really low like 8, then something is keeping 30+ processes going and
> would require investigating.
>
>  - Wade

On 12/03/10 1:46 AM, Asle Benoni wrote:
> Minimum spare servers: 16
> Maximum spare servers: 64
>
> Is that ok?
>
> /asle
>


Short answer: Most likely.

Longer: It all depends on what load you need to handle.

OK, your machine is set up so that it tries to keep 16 spare httpd
processes free to handle sudden spikes in requests. There's a little bit
of overhead/time involved in creating a new httpd process, so that's why
you want to have some ready to process new requests, rather than just
creating them when the request comes in.

Once a request is processed, the client has closed the connection, and
the httpd process is now idle, if there are more than 64 spare ones,
those extra ones will be terminated leaving no more than 64.

Looking at the list you first sent, since you restarted your machine
there has never been more than 24 simultaneous connections (40 processes
- 16 spare = 24 simultaneous peak). So it may be higher than you need
since you haven't had 64 processes at once, let alone 64 spare ones, but
it isn't causing any issues so I'd leave it alone.


There's a couple of things that come in to play here, such as:
How many simultaneous requests a single visitor can make to a single
server. Most browsers are set to use around 4-6 connections.
Persistent connections. If allowed by your server - they keep a
connection open between the client and the server and allow subsequent
requests to use the same connection, rather than dropping the first and
then creating a second - makes things go a bit quicker. But the
connection will stay open until the connection timeout, so that's a
httpd process that is sitting doing nothing, but it's not available to
process requests from anybody else during that time.


Looking at your 24 simultaneous peak connections, that could have been
from only 4 simultaneous visitors (each with 6 requests), and even then
they may have been spread out over 15-60 or so seconds and not truly
simultaneous (depending on your persistent connection settings -
KeepAlive in apache conf terms).


If the machine hasn't been running for long then this isn't a safe set
of data to draw a conclusion from, but going back to your original post,
based on your settings yes it is normal to have 40 httpd processes
running not doing much. But I don't think they are related to slow
responses or crashing.

Filemaker can do that by itself (had to get a bash in <g>)

- Wade